[Young Ef]

Okay in light of how heated some of our discussions get i have decided to create a round table thread where we can all talk about different aspects in hip-hop respectfully and intelligently.

Everyday i will bring up an Different topic about or relating to hip-hop and we will talk about it...we are not here to chop down nobody or their opion if i see that then warnings will be issued and threads will be deleted...

However bring the heat...and this isn't the place to come with allagations u need to have facts to back up your claims...so with that lets get it in

First topic i wanna offer to the table is of course is

"Is failure to produce platinum selling music of substance mean that then Genre in question is Dead?"

All of the talk of hip-hop being dead, R&B being dead, Rock And Roll Being dead it has gotten me thinkin, is the art form of the music dead or are the artist who participate in these genre's simply unable to put out good music

[PDP]

Originally Posted by PDP

The way I see it is this, and this is where yall gotta realize this shit,,, the game is dictated by what the people want to see, and whos paying for shit,,, the people paying are 10-14 year old white kids, they are the one who buy the albums, and not bootleg them, hence the shitty shit, gets the number 1 spot,,,, if we want to save hip hop we need to go back to 1995, when you couldnt jump on a computer and have all the hot shit in a hour, you had to buy it.

just some food for thought

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[CESARE BORGIA]

The way i see it, popular music is popular because of the masses, with the masses being the younger kids and the fans of bubblegum rap, of course that will be all we see from our rappers, money rules these days, not the music or the desire to create something great, in my opinion, rap is crippled to the point that euthanasia sounds like the humane thing to do, after it's dead, then maybe it can be reborn in its more pure form.

[innaspace]

"Is failure to produce platinum selling music of substance mean that then Genre in question is Dead?"

see the thing is, its gotten to a point of status where people brag when they go plat and boast sales, and then a rappers primary concern when putting out a record is sales, when in reality, it should just be about making good music and doin what you wanna do creatively.

with soundscan figures becoming more and more public, its pretty difficult to hide it if an album flops. this is bullshit because once again it becomes a game all about figures



"It's a numbers game but shit don't add up some how"- Mos Def

as much as i love illegal downloading, i think its the reason that hip hop as a genre is losing sales and wack poppy artists sell over the real motherfuckers. it used to be before that the people that copped real shit outnumbered the little rich white kids that bought semi poppy shit. that meant the poppy shit got no airplay and really no one listened to it and just listened to shit like mainstream rock or whatever the fuck.

now you got illegal downloads and damn near everyone that used to listen to real hip hop is either not into music anymore (i.e. "doesnt give a fuck"), broke (hence the downloads), or has gone with the flow and listened to whatever's on the radio. the little mainstream dickriders take over as the main consumers and the rap game takes a sharp turn for the negative.

and that my friends is how sales and the internet have affected the rap game

[CESARE BORGIA]

Originally Posted by innaspace

see the thing is, its gotten to a point of status where people brag when they go plat and boast sales, and then a rappers primary concern when putting out a record is sales, when in reality, it should just be about making good music and doin what you wanna do creatively.

with soundscan figures becoming more and more public, its pretty difficult to hide it if an album flops. this is bullshit because once again it becomes a game all about figures



"It's a numbers game but shit don't add up some how"- Mos Def

as much as i love illegal downloading, i think its the reason that hip hop as a genre is losing sales and wack poppy artists sell over the real motherfuckers. it used to be before that the people that copped real shit outnumbered the little rich white kids that bought semi poppy shit. that meant the poppy shit got no airplay and really no one listened to it and just listened to shit like mainstream rock or whatever the fuck.

now you got illegal downloads and damn near everyone that used to listen to real hip hop is either not into music anymore (i.e. "doesnt give a fuck"), broke (hence the downloads), or has gone with the flow and listened to whatever's on the radio. the little mainstream dickriders take over as the main consumers and the rap game takes a sharp turn for the negative.

and that my friends is how sales and the internet have affected the rap game

Good point.

[Young Ef]

Okay here is my Retort

Do i think that hip-hop is dead my answer is no. Do I think that pure music is dead my answer is yes. Hip-hop isn't dead it has just opened up, we cannot blame this on sales due to the first hip-hop record i mean REAL RECORD THAT WAS DONE IN A REAL STUDIO ON A REAL MAJOR LABLE WAS A NUMBERS GAME

Look it up and do research, The sugar hill gang was built by this woman i can't remeber her name on the top of my head but she is the head of Suger hill records and she found these men and started a group because she looked at a dj and a mc perform at a birthday and realized the money to be made in hip-hop, that is when sugar hill gang was developed and making hit records started..

If making a hit wasn't important then their will be no such thing as platinum and gold plaques, artist wouldn't recieve rewards for selling millions of records.

At one point, only Rock And Roll sold those types of numbers and it was a constant challenge for hip-hop to make that staple and gain that respect

In tha process we got watered down, but you have to respect what hip-hop has done for Afro American people. It has given us a gateway out of a situation that we come up in. So you have rappers coming out of the wood work all rapping. Some have talent some don't. This is where they saying "its not who u are its who you know" plays a major part and having money

So you have the money to mix with these big named people, you putting CDs in hand, payola is a mothafucka tha street game, all of it contributes to the dirty polatics behind the music.

Now lately i have been reading musical agreements contracts and legally binding info as to the creation of albums for major lables. And it is horrible how they control the creative process, they basically tell u what to record how to record it and where, they pick the producers and have the right to make u change whatever they dont deem "satisfactory" This is killing the essence of the music

It is forcing artist to do what lables need from them to sale records to keep them a float so they can compete with the rest of the industry because everyone is watching...

What i blame is artist not paying attention to what they signing! if you want good music back, artist have to get smart and start realizing the polotical angles and use it to their advantage and stop being victims of the lable and record industry.

Because no matter how many songs and albums i download i will still buy a hot album

[PDP]

ayo I agree with that shit ef dub, (about contracts, and motherfuckers being to starstruck to look what they signing)...

however, I still stick to my original statement of bootlegging killing hiphop, cause its the truth, why pay for what you can give for free. I mean if you can get weed for free, would you go to the dude down the street and buy a sack from him,,,,,, no, shit youd keep puffing on that blunt and be happy you got that extra money in your pocket to take your girl to a movie.

and btw hiphop is my drugs, im addicted and aint never gonna turn my back on it.

[innaspace]

same ill still cop an album if its hot i never said that.

[Young Ef]

okay okay..so u go get free weed from da dude and its trash can u complain about its quality??

if you not supporting the artform you downloading how could u complain about it??

now if u go out and buy an album and u support da shit and your disappointed in what your PAYING for then i could agree

[PDP]

naw, see cause im one of the dudes that still buys albums, I bought every album I have downloaded this year (which exceptions of a few), but I still support every artist that I like (if I like that artist, how else they gonna keep going if I dont),,, all im sayin is thats the problem with the music scene today, its to easy, big ups to you and everyone else that will pay for an album that they allready have, just because its hot, but lets be real, do you have a legit copy of every album that you LIKE, that has dropped this year, cause I do, but does sam joe and tim?,,,,, naw they got it on the ipod for free.

Now back to the real, hip hop fans of today are a bunch of fake wack motherfuckers,,,, why, cause they download EVERY album, and then debate record sales, like oh shit Snoop only sold 400k, hes wack,,,, back up motherfucker, if you aint puttin in to the pot, dont piss in the bowl. ya feel me.

my 2 cents

[leatherface187]

if i download an album and like the shit imma support a rapper and buy that shit, if i download an album with 2 songs thats good with 12 filler bling bling coma induceing bullshit songs imma download everything from that artist just to trash it.
labels fuck people thats a fact, get a distrubution deal like fat joe and make 7 dollars a c.d. and have complete creative control and own your masters. As soon as he got off his label his songs got a hellofalot better, no more pop hop.
I love rap but with these club going kids wanting their bubble music to dance around too and act stupid not even listening to lyrics.
anything commercialy put out sucks. Jay-z a rap god? only since 2000 would someone ever dare say this about his horrible lyrics and dumb ass content.
you can say imma hater but Get Rich or Die trying was a good c.d. not great but good, The Massacre should have been launched into orbit it was so bad, and with it any material nelly would have recorded along with all the members of cash money and the survivors of no limit, you could also include Young Joc, rich boy, st lunatics, most of g-unit esspecialy mase, diddy, and the diplomats and anyone who would ever want to be like them.
ok im done now,

[Young Ef]

Fat joe only makes 5 dollars and 45 cent per album

Dipset has one of tha highest indy deals 7 forty five per album

[leatherface187]

i was rounding up haha, nah i was going off what he said in xxl, and since hes a pretty real person i fugured its close, but its still a whole hell of a lot better than what commercial labels pay their artists plus you have the perks of owning your masters and putting out what YOU want.

[Agent Orange]

Hip Hop Is Dead

Ehh.....nah. I can't really agree with that statement. I think people have been wording that statement a little wrong. It should say something like Hip Hop has changed. I think the essence, what Hip hop used to be, has changed. Alot of people are blaming the south. Me personally, I don't blame them (Most of them anyways). I got alot of respect for Lil' Wayne, Young Jeezy, and T.I.. There's alot of southern artists who are doing their thing. Now I can't say the same for some groups like D4L or Dem Franchize Boyz, but that's another story.

Hip Hop has changed because of 4 things:

1) Illegal Downloading - This topic has been covered already in the thread so I won't go into detail. But we all know that downloads have raped Hip-Hop. The debate could go both ways though. I mean, think about the times before the downloading phenomenon. How many times were you pissed the fuck off when you went to the store, dropped 12-15 bucks on CD, and that shit was wack as fuck? Downloading SHOULD have strengthened hip-hop had the consumer not taken full advantage of it. But like PDP said, why the fuck would you go buy something that you can get for free? And that's how 90% of hip-hop listeners think. And I'm also at fault for this cause I think I've actually only bought 2-3 albums this year.

2) Labels, A&R's, CEO's (The Big Wigs) - Yeah, motherfuckers who probably don't know a damn thing about hip-hop or its essence. People who could probably care less if every rapper fucking dropped dead. They're just leeching off of the game. They control every aspect of a rapper down to their styles, producers, songs, etc. If they don't like it, if they don't see it as profitable, they take it away. Remember, these are the same guys who said you weren't smart enough to understand Little Brother's - Lovin' It video.

3) The Artists - This one is debatable. On one hand, they gotta eat. On the other hand, they're almost like the spokespeople, the upholders, the guardians for hip-hop. Which would you choose? Your craft or the money for your Kraft Mac & Cheese later on tonight?

4) You (The Consumer In General) - We, as a whole, do the most bitching, the most complaining about the death of hip-hop. Who's real? Who ain't real? Who's pumping the most album sales? The south's fucking up hip-hop! Or.....(Insert Rapper's Name Here) is going pop! DON'T BUY THE SHIT THEN!!!! You gotta understand, labels gotta make money. The money comes from us. They're only putting out what the fuck we're buying. We have the power to change hip-hop if we really wanted to. We could "resurrect" it so to speak. But there's alot of talk and no action. That's why shit is gonna keep going the way it is.

[leatherface187]

i agree with you mostly agent but saying that we are the consumer isnt exacly correct. ill explain, we (most of the people that frequent this site) are in general hip-hop purists, the people that love music with substance. The consumers of hip-hop, in a large right now, are the same people that will but the paris hilton c.d. and the green day album, the type that say the best song on an album is what ever the single is, because thats what they buy the album for, cause most people have their single be the most pop heavy radio friendly record on the album. honestly the consumers are not us anymore. They are people who dont have the same struggles as the stories told in great hip-hop, they have cellies, cars bought by their parents and alot of other things people like myself don't have.
sappy ballin songs reach to them cause its about stuff they can compair with, i got no money in the bank why would i want to hear about yours? anyway thats all i got right now
peace 1